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Toyota says no evidence "runaway" Prius happened

Reuters -- Toyota Motor Corp said on Monday it had found no evidence to support the driver's version of a widely publicized "runaway" Prius episode a week ago, suggesting that authorities examine whether the incident happened as reported to police.

Toyota representatives convened a news conference in San Diego, near the site of the March 8 report of the "runaway" vehicle, to announce preliminary findings of its examination of the 2008 Prius driven by James Sikes.

U.S. safety investigators said earlier on Monday that they had found no evidence to support or disprove Sikes' version of events.

Sikes, 61, had reported in a call to 911-emergency operators that his Prius sped out of control for some 20 minutes before he could bring the vehicle under control with the assistance of the CHP.

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Submitted Mar 15, 2010 By: Mudsprings

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1006 All-Star Author Birmingham Posts:929 Points:1,027,495 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Mar 18, 2010 10:05:52 PM Ignore 1006 Report Abuse Don't doubt the emergency, but I am not ready to place blame on Toyota.
honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:15,259 Points:1,141,225 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Mar 17, 2010 10:53:04 PM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse Bonanza: as many as folks who want something from 'Yo can make them seem relatively real ...
Bonanza Champion Author Boston Posts:9,288 Points:2,084,980 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Mar 16, 2010 5:34:42 AM Ignore Bonanza Report Abuse How many of these going to be fakes?
MyVue08 Champion Author Columbus Posts:4,917 Points:883,835 Joined:May 2009	Message Posted: Mar 16, 2010 3:07:21 AM Ignore MyVue08 Report Abuse DUPLICATE INFORMATION!!
NavyStore Champion Author Seattle Posts:3,768 Points:1,658,815 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Mar 16, 2010 1:35:26 AM Ignore NavyStore Report Abuse Of course they say that! Now they just have to figure out where they screwed up so they can fix it.
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:43,319 Points:1,711,030 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Mar 16, 2010 12:56:52 AM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse hank1326 wrote: >Toyota needs to admit to the problem and pay their dues. Well, what's their problem? If you can tell them what they did wrong and how to fix it, they'd be happy for you to tell them. I've heard comments that they should turn the ECU source code over to an IV&V group. They've already done that once. Maybe they should do it again. They ought to ask the FAA to send them to whoever Boeing and Airbus use for their commercial aircraft software certification. [Edited by: Sneakers55 at 3/16/2010 12:58:23 AM EST]
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:43,319 Points:1,711,030 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Mar 16, 2010 12:49:13 AM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse Amtrgas wrote: >Just because you can not reproduce the problem, does not make him a liar. Well, in this case, we have an Event Data Recorder (EDR). The EDR recorded that he was quickly tapping the brakes for at least 250 events (the maximum it could record). The unfortunate thing here is the Toyota EDR can only be read by Toyota. The Detroit Three have EDRs that a device made by Bosch can read. And then you're dealing with a bankrupt individual with a history of filing fraudulent police reports. Toyota didn't call him a liar flat out, but they said the police should look into the veracity of his story.
hank1326 Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:6,691 Points:1,279,415 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Mar 16, 2010 12:39:11 AM Ignore hank1326 Report Abuse Toyota needs to admit to the problem and pay their dues.
ILANGE9 Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,185 Points:1,130,675 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 11:35:01 PM Ignore ILANGE9 Report Abuse Pure fraud. This guy needs charged with something to stop other schemers and shysters.
Amtrgas Champion Author Oakland Posts:2,551 Points:1,229,530 Joined:Dec 2007	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 10:52:58 PM Ignore Amtrgas Report Abuse Just because you can not reproduce the problem, does not make him a liar.
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:43,319 Points:1,711,030 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 10:30:00 PM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse fullauto wrote: >no reliable witness- no crime comitted. Failure to follow directions of a peace officer. He was told to put the car in NEUTRAL but he refused. It's probably not much more than a slap on the wrist, but trial and conviction would send a message to the next fraudster.
jjjleblanc Champion Author Rochester Posts:4,344 Points:1,099,400 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 10:23:16 PM Ignore jjjleblanc Report Abuse Reports seem to rise whenever a company falters.
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:43,319 Points:1,711,030 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 10:21:52 PM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse Amplion wrote: >Looks like PRIUS owner can not be trusted. When you get someone who is bankrupt and has a history of filing false reports to the police... would you trust them? >Toyota is ready to discredit those who would admit that their PRIUS is >not the PERFECT little car. Well, what if Toyota is telling the TRUTH? Or do we use the standard that "their lips are moving, they must be lying" because the answer is an inconvenient truth?
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:43,319 Points:1,711,030 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 10:18:07 PM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse 1Casey wrote: >It happened, There were no brakes left. FOX Business was showing off a set of well-worn brake pads. Complete with wear patterns incompatible with panic braking. >Now you have to find what caused it. Operator error or abuse is always possible. It's impossible to make things foolproof because fools are so darned ingenious. >If you don't have technicians that can do the job. Call the U.A.W. All the UAW technicians would be able to figure out was the union label was missing. UAW technicians are always surprised by what the Japanese turn out. One time, they had a transmission source from both Ford (US) and Mazda (Japan) and the Japanese ones were getting higher ratings from their new owners. Ford did a teardown comparing the two. Ford met the tolerances. Mazda units, on the other hand, had such tight unit-to-unit build that the UAW technicians turned around and said "the gauges are broken, call metrology!" When they let Mazda design the Escort about twenty years ago, the American engineers complained that they were using aircraft tolerances. Probably the reason the Escort improved so dramatically about that time.
Bonito Champion Author Dayton Posts:13,044 Points:2,545,410 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 10:12:32 PM Ignore Bonito Report Abuse Keep talking the talk and maybe someone will believe! RIGHT!
TBRR Champion Author Jacksonville Posts:2,173 Points:364,915 Joined:Dec 2007	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 10:12:10 PM Ignore TBRR Report Abuse the driver was probably looking for a quick law suit settled with the insurance company. no doubt he had a heavy foot on the gas pedal. just forgot how to turn the car off i suspect. had a olds throttle linkage get jammed in the 80s, quick thinking was to turn off the key and i will be darned, the engine stopped. the quick fix was to make an adjustment to the linkage. who is trying to fool who here and hoping to make a quick buck. probably forgot the attorney will take 35 - 40% of the payoff. also the payouts are always made out the to attorneys who take their share first and leave the remainder for the person bringing the suit. funny why it works out that way. the attorneys always win.
ARROWHEAD Veteran Author Detroit Posts:453 Points:1,019,125 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 10:09:18 PM Ignore ARROWHEAD Report Abuse Sounds to me like somebody is trying to get a big payday and I don't mean the Sikes
plebe2001de Champion Author Delaware Posts:1,175 Points:254,715 Joined:Nov 2009	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 10:07:27 PM Ignore plebe2001de Report Abuse I do not necessarily trust either the driver or Toyota in this case.
Amplion Champion Author Oregon Posts:4,230 Points:1,397,195 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 10:07:00 PM Ignore Amplion Report Abuse Looks like PRIUS owner can not be trusted. Toyota is ready to discredit those who would admit that their PRIUS is not the PERFECT little car.
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:43,319 Points:1,711,030 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 10:05:14 PM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse OriginalBudman wrote: >This doesn't look good for Toyota, the fact that they are not able to >determine what's wrong. It's impossible to prove goodness, only the absence of badness. And, in the what they were able to determine, they did find simultaneous accelerator and brake actuation, the brake never depressed long enough to trigger the brake override. I learned about the age of ten that you don't lie, you'll be found out.
plebe2001de Champion Author Delaware Posts:1,175 Points:254,715 Joined:Nov 2009	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 10:05:00 PM Ignore plebe2001de Report Abuse We may never know what really happened. But just because Toyota and/or the US Safety Investigators could not reproduce the problem DOES NOT MEAN that it didn't happen.
BigdaddyMA Sophomore Author Massachusetts Posts:163 Points:154,070 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 10:01:15 PM Ignore BigdaddyMA Report Abuse Although I suspect there might have been a problem with the car, I also suspect that the driver might have had something to do with the problem too, it seems he has had some problems in his background too. I just don't know who I would blame in this case.
kingpin6 Champion Author Arkansas Posts:2,567 Points:1,188,390 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 9:59:14 PM Ignore kingpin6 Report Abuse Why is Toyota focusing so much attention on an obvious false claim? If they exerted this much effort on resolving the problem maybe it would already be resolved.
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:43,319 Points:1,711,030 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 9:58:55 PM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse pgerassi wrote: >Toyota can't admit a software fault because they would look extremely >bad. Even with a combo software hardware fault, they would look >terrible. Just because a software bug would force them to admit all >models of drive by wire need to be recalled for software upgrades >even if that means a new electronic engine controls computer. Toyota uses EEPROM memory for their firmware so they can reflash it. The Prius has been reflashed at least twice. If you think that's horrible, Government Motors has reputedly reissued new firmware on some models more than a dozen times. >What it will turn out to be is software that can't handle a bit flip in >memory which is due to marginal memory being installed or poor shielding >of the EEC. Seems you think you're so confident about that. Do you know anything about Toyota's ECU? I don't (other than they use EEPROM) but it wouldn't take much to add EDAC and a scrubber like they do in spacecraft computers. On the other hand, the only place where I've seen an EDAC unflip flipped bits was in outer space (where we got a daily report of how many bits flipped since last time). I'm astonished they could keep a computer up in that environment. Triplex redundancy was nice, but they all ran the same hardware and software. They did have their ace in the hole, another computer that ran what they called the "Mighty Mouse" software. If the triply redundant computers all went down, Mighty Mouse would kick in and start turning the main computers on and off until one recovered. >In other words, Toyota's engineers can't rule out such a problem. And >the fact that Ford with the same system (different implementation >though) in its Escape and Fusion doesn't have this problem. They likely >take a cue from their avionics division, to make the software fault >tolerant from intermittent hardware failures (like a bit flip). Ford Aerospace was sold to what is now known as Lockheed Martin twenty years ago. >Toyota probably tried to save a few hundred thousand in software >costs thinking that their hardware won't dare to fail on them. Maybe, maybe not. They don't have the money to deploy a triply redundant system, complete with three different microprocessors, like they do in the "one failure in a billion" commercial aircraft avionics.
justinoles Champion Author Orlando Posts:2,258 Points:552,285 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 9:58:09 PM Ignore justinoles Report Abuse I think people are looking for an easy lawsuit. The guy is 61, lost his retirement to Bush and now wants Toyota to pay for it...
mswillia All-Star Author Milwaukee Posts:802 Points:304,570 Joined:Feb 2010	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 9:55:05 PM Ignore mswillia Report Abuse Why is that people are unable to get the cars into neutral? just bump it and it goes out of gear and into neutral.
RAC110 Champion Author Massachusetts Posts:3,985 Points:1,472,525 Joined:Mar 2003	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 9:54:38 PM Ignore RAC110 Report Abuse something smells like a babies day old diaper here and wonder what is going to be said next
TheBirchME Rookie Author Maine Posts:12 Points:125,270 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 9:52:25 PM Ignore TheBirchME Report Abuse T also said, that the breaks where barely touched a bunch of times and that if they here stomped on like he said, then it would have neen more then enough to stop the car
DWME Champion Author Indiana Posts:1,223 Points:250,000 Joined:Aug 2009	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 9:48:51 PM Ignore DWME Report Abuse It was more than just Toyota. Government officials couldn't recreate the scenario.
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:43,319 Points:1,711,030 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 9:39:12 PM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse 30mpg80 wrote: >I want to hear from an investigator not connected to Toyota NHTSA said they couldn't make a decision. Unfortunately, they can't read Toyota's black box and dispel all doubt. Sounds like we need a law that everyone's black boxes can be read using a common reader. Think of it as OBD-II for safety related data. (On the other hand, I remember that OBD-II has three signaling standards: Ford, Government Motors, and the rest of the world.)
1Casey Champion Author Albany Posts:4,516 Points:1,418,710 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 9:27:07 PM Ignore 1Casey Report Abuse It happened, There were no brakes left. Now you have to find what caused it. If you don't have technicians that can do the job. Call the U.A.W.
OriginalBudman Champion Author Barrie Posts:8,629 Points:1,782,270 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 9:25:14 PM Ignore OriginalBudman Report Abuse This doesn't look good for Toyota, the fact that they are not able to determine what's wrong. The rest of you Prius owners - beware! As should anyone caught in traffic around a Prius...or any other Toyota for that matter.
PissedCanuck Champion Author Toronto Posts:5,138 Points:1,192,210 Joined:Nov 2006	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 9:23:43 PM Ignore PissedCanuck Report Abuse The problem with any electronic issues, especially intermittent types of this nature is that when it happens, it happens and there usually is no way to replicate the same result, unless it happens again if and when it does happen again, nobody knows when. It may happen today, tomorrow, a week from now, a month from now or even at all. This is what drives mechanics and car companies alike nuts and Toyota is pretty much at the end of its rope.
methaneman Champion Author Minnesota Posts:1,787 Points:1,093,050 Joined:May 2002	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 9:17:50 PM Ignore methaneman Report Abuse I have not heard of any incident that Toyota has been able to duplicate. If so this issue would have been solved by now.
dbatw Champion Author St. Louis Posts:1,686 Points:341,165 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 9:14:21 PM Ignore dbatw Report Abuse why does this driver need a lawyer? I smell a rat here. Or is that just the slither of plaintiff lawyers as they gather for the pounce?
30mpg80 Champion Author Lexington Posts:4,482 Points:1,021,910 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 9:14:16 PM Ignore 30mpg80 Report Abuse I want to hear from an investigator not connected to Toyota
comprof Champion Author Houston Posts:4,373 Points:895,100 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 9:10:18 PM Ignore comprof Report Abuse This Toyota mess just keeps going on.
comprof Champion Author Houston Posts:4,373 Points:895,100 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 9:07:08 PM Ignore comprof Report Abuse netman044: I agree.
netman044 Champion Author Texas Posts:5,291 Points:893,660 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 9:06:06 PM Ignore netman044 Report Abuse Trying to manufacture evidence causes more harm for valid claims than it can ever do good.
myGASisFREE Sophomore Author Ohio Posts:153 Points:202,500 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 9:04:58 PM Ignore myGASisFREE Report Abuse someone trying to cash in ?
Cyberkedi Champion Author Atlanta Posts:11,961 Points:2,030,410 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 9:02:22 PM Ignore Cyberkedi Report Abuse Sorry, Toyota, but I don't trust youse mugs anymore. I'm buyin' a Ford.
SSchmidty Champion Author Illinois Posts:6,953 Points:1,323,635 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 8:58:16 PM Ignore SSchmidty Report Abuse Can't for when its Japanese design engineers that experience this "floor mat" problem in their own car ... hopefully they survive to stop telling those lies!
Sealer Champion Author Charleston Posts:5,653 Points:838,400 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 8:57:44 PM Ignore Sealer Report Abuse I guess when you see everyone piling on, you just assume that jumping on top of the pile would be safe and don't think about the possibility that others standing around the pile will start thinking rationally just as you land on top of the pile. That's the same risk so many in the media and government have already taken in this situation without being questioned.
tgolf Champion Author Washington Posts:1,325 Points:337,370 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 8:53:59 PM Ignore tgolf Report Abuse This smells all over...from both sides.
trallig Champion Author South Carolina Posts:2,654 Points:536,470 Joined:Mar 2003	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 8:52:36 PM Ignore trallig Report Abuse Once again the media propagates a hoax, just to beat up on big business! Shame on them!
scrounger Champion Author Vancouver Posts:9,635 Points:2,647,145 Joined:Mar 2003	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 8:49:30 PM Ignore scrounger Report Abuse the guy too dumb to put the car into neutral......cause he was afraid it would flip over?????
Zeedyke Champion Author Ohio Posts:3,071 Points:480,950 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 8:44:24 PM Ignore Zeedyke Report Abuse Well the Guy shit his pants!! Is that evidence or.......
diatzikis All-Star Author Raleigh Posts:947 Points:290,260 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 8:42:20 PM Ignore diatzikis Report Abuse oh what else can they say. HEY we knew aobut it and if you drive our cars, they could at any time keep going;? ....
dpt Champion Author Michigan Posts:1,458 Points:1,810,745 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 8:37:48 PM Ignore dpt Report Abuse Well, if it IS a software glitch, you'd have to replicate ALL the conditions to be sure. Maybe in these cases they need to have the person driving the car go through the steps he or she took on a test track. The driver might be doing something none of their test drivers are thinking of. That's what causes computer crashes, after all. The user does something the programmer hadn't envisioned and the whole thing locks up or worse. The fact that Toyota or the government can't replicate it doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen. That cop saw the brake lights on, the brakes were giving out a seriously burned odor and when examined they were nearly gone. Doesn't sound like a hoax, exactly. More like that override system didn't kick in for some reason. If it had acted as it was supposed to, the car would have stopped. Toyota isn't necessarily a demon here, but they need to think like a panicked driver, not like a mechanic or software engineer.
CarrottopNe Champion Author Lincoln Posts:1,025 Points:368,415 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Mar 15, 2010 8:25:51 PM Ignore CarrottopNe Report Abuse This story is far from over.