Cyberkedi
Champion Author
Atlanta
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Message Posted:
12/29/2008 10:22:21 PM
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Recently heard that Toyota posted their first loss in 70+ years. Hard to believe, what with all the Priuses I see!
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Martinman
Champion Author
Mississippi
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 4:25:45 PM
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The UAW is not the problem, Wall Street and the aura of corporate greed at the top are to blame.
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Z51Corvette
Champion Author
Austin
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11/18/2008 2:38:28 PM
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Tomok... get a life... If someone wants to waste money on a Hummer it's their business... not yours! While it's not prudent... I wouldn't own one... The market will dictate what's produced and what's deleted...
The big problem is the UAW... which unless the big 3 tank... those contracts will continually drag the big 3 into the gutter. The UAW needs to go... they are bankrupted the big 3... not sales.
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Martinman
Champion Author
Mississippi
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 1:22:39 PM
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Don't remember the Chrysler bailout from the early 80s, do you?
The Federal Government actually made money off the loan guarantees they provided to Chrysler, and the company emerged as a much stronger company with a new [and deserved] image, fostered by [then] CEO Lee Iacoca.
I expect the same type of terms would be negotiated under any new loan agreements provided by Congress.
So why is it being referred to as a bailout? Because those with a vested interest in seeing it fail, want to rename it to something that is not palatable to the American public. It's a tactic that has been well "refined" by the current administration, who has openly spoke-out against the concept.
The terms of such guarantees should be defined by Congress, not the administration who has already unilaterally decided to change what it promised Congress it would do with the 700 Billion they were provided, after demanding that money be provided with no strings attached.
Oh, and you do also realize, that the loan-guarantees the auto industry seeks, are to cover expenses associated with retooling and transitioning to their smaller fuel efficient models. My understanding is that Ford plans to bring over/introduce portions of its European product line starting next spring. GM seems to be focused mostly on the Volt. Chrysler, I don’t have a clue.
Unfortunately, most don't understand that most major industries simply cannot react on the short-term basis in which this current situation developed. Lead-times for such changes occur over years, not months or weeks. The vendor string alone that provide much of the small parts needed to build any vehicle are often unique to that vehicle or just a few vehicles within the manufacturer’s product line. Electrical harnesses, fuel tanks, interior molding, vehicle computers and a host of other critical parts are all [now] outsourced and required vendor lead-times. That’s why individual vehicle lines usually undergo major changes only every 3-5 years.
There is no magical switch you can flip, overnight.
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tomok
Champion Author
Portland
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 11:35:07 AM
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They big 3 can get a government loan that is to be REPAID only. ***REPAID!***
The CEO will have to leave with NO BONUS allowed! That is the person responsible for where the company is today.
The management that is left will have to reorganize and produce a multi-fuel, reasonable cost, very reliable and high MPG vehicle...!!!
Very limited production of SUVs and pickups – these are for business purposes only!
No Hummers! - there is NO excuse for a Hummer....!!!
Unions will renegotiate their contract for FAIR wages and no health care for retired employees. Once you leave the company – there are NO more benefits!
AND, there are to be NO 'retreats' at resorts and other such nonsense. These 3 companies need to pull themselves out of their behinds and finally SEE THE LIGHT!!!!
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rockinrog
Champion Author
Ontario
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 10:41:39 AM
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to many direct and indirect jobs are affected if no help is done. But the strings need to be tightened.....no more fat bonuses or stock options to the big boys.
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BIGDADDY0034
All-Star Author
Georgia
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 10:09:24 AM
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TIME TO BAIL AUTOMAKERS, WE NEED DOMESTIC PRODUCTS, AND FOREIGN PRODUCTS, BUT NOT AT THE COST OF U.S.A. WORKERS. HAVEN'T ENOUGH PEOPLE LOST THEIR JOBS ALREADY? THIS COUNTRY OF OURS CAN NOT TAKE MUCH MORE.
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kanmandoo
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Detroit
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 10:07:48 AM
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We are as low as $1.75 in metro Detroit, but it won't help without a job.
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rjb21760
Champion Author
Chicago
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 10:00:29 AM
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Time to cut wages and throw out the unions.
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smokin2win07
Sophomore Author
Tennessee
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:59:04 AM
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I agree with what I watched on CNN last night. We could bail them out with OUR money now, but there is still a good chance that later on they will file bankruptcy and will have to restructure their organization. Or, we let them file bankruptcy and do as I stated above. Either way, they will probably file bankruptcy whether we give them money or not. So why should this government decide whether or not to give them this money, we should be the ones who decide. It is our tax money. Oh, I forgot who is the current president and who will be the future president. Start hiding your money, it may be gone by Jan. 31, 09
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CSFireFish
Rookie Author
Colorado Springs
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:58:27 AM
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What a great idea.....let's bail everyone out and let the common man foot the bill!
Big government will destroy us all.
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AlaRedNeck
Champion Author
Kansas
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:58:09 AM
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If we bailed out financial companies who still pay their CEOs millions in bonuses why not bail out the big aut makers and save thousands of jobs?
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Nogeekme
Champion Author
Baltimore
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:57:43 AM
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if not bailed out over 500,000 thousand workers will be jobless
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DooDaa
Champion Author
Massachusetts
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:56:50 AM
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Wheres your pride in American cars.. All have been around for 100 years.
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ss70
Champion Author
Detroit
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:56:49 AM
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100% Jap cars here ...
As all auto jobs are gone then no money to buy the cars Great scene
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Jamer
All-Star Author
Orange County
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:56:17 AM
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Just let it play out without bailing the Big Three out, if not they will be back in a year with their hands out again.
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jayeman
Rookie Author
Pennsylvania
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:55:47 AM
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if were in the business of bailing out everyone, why aren't we knocking on the door of the gas companies - when especially when they're posting headlines like 10 bln 4th qtr profit...
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DrakIII
Sophomore Author
San Diego
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:54:01 AM
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Like I said before, we never learn.
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Shadowwarrior
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Pennsylvania
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:52:24 AM
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Oh there is a lot of blame to go around. Do you blame management and those big bonus's or the unions that all they want is more because management got more money. They all should have not been so greedy and put more into R & D.
When did you ever see a union settle for a contract that did not give the union management a raise. the more a union member makes,the more the union dues are, hence union management can give then self a raise. Guess we could say a lot of the blame is management, on both sides.
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sivart
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Arkansas
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:52:14 AM
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"Ron Gettelfinger, head of the United Auto Workers, said in an interview Friday, raising the prospect of a General Motors bankruptcy. “At this juncture, we are in a crisis that could have a major negative impact on this country."
He helped put us in this crisis!
When the unions got too much power they got greedy and are still greedy.
Don't get me wrong as the unions are a necessary evil. They protect their people and that is a good thing but they have been going overboard for years on saleries and benefits, etc.
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starfighter08
Veteran Author
Illinois
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:50:19 AM
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The biggest problem is the unions. The workers pay through the nose for all the promises, but when the workers need the union, the union only pays a pittance while the union bosses pay themselves outrageous 6 or 7 figure salaries.
Get rid of the unions and the big three will be able to lower prices on their products and still make a profit. That's precisely what the Japanese have done to undercut the Big 3. And they do it here at their plants in the US. The US workers that work for the Japanese auto companies are well paid, have good benefits, but without the union BS.
Unions are outdated dinosaurs. They served their purposes in the past, but it's time for them to go the way of said dinosaurs.
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AC-302
Champion Author
Los Angeles
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:50:11 AM
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".. but in time foreign car companies would pick up the slack by stepping up production in their plants here."
--Oh, right. So that profit is now going to be shipped overseas to Japanese companies that aren't going to pay correct tax on it? And the money will be made by FOREIGN 1st and 2nd tier suppliers.
I'm not in love with the idea of a bailout, far from it. But do we want to hand the American automobile market to the Japanese and other foreign companies? Sorry, I'd just as soon that America be in charge of it's own economic destiny.
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sidhall142
Sophomore Author
Twin Cities
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:47:46 AM
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If i dont get a bail out, no one should.
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GasholeMI
Champion Author
Lansing
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:46:57 AM
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Do not bail out the big three.
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jaysun420
Sophomore Author
Kansas City
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:46:10 AM
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It's too bad that this not only hurts our auto industry but many other areas of the U.S. economy. The main impact being the transportation industry taking a huge hit as well, crippling our U.S. economy even more.
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cableman31
Champion Author
New York
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:46:10 AM
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We can't let Detroit fall. But if we give them money, we want new management.
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johnrb
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Michigan
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:45:40 AM
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Martinman puts the case very well! We need to build cars here or else we can put our head in the sand and die.
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ww2gas
All-Star Author
Virginia
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:44:37 AM
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Golden opportunity to force them to restructure without killing off an important and broad industry.
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85XJ
Champion Author
Toledo
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:44:04 AM
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Copperhead8 said "Not my problem; let the car industry bail themselves out. "
Well, you must work in an industry that doesn't sell any goods or services. If the Big 3 go down, that's a lot of employees that go with them. You eliminate their paychecks, you eliminate their buying power i.e no more trips to restaurants, book stores, the doctor, the grocery store, mortgage payments, retail stores, visits by the plumber and electrician (should I go on?). Fewer people eating at restaurants, buying books, groceries etc means fewer jobs at restaurants, stores and plumbers, which means even less people to buy goods and services. See where I'm going with this? If sell a good or service, it might not be your problem TODAY, but TOMORROW it could be. What's it called? Trickle down economics?
Sorry, rant over.
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BoerneWatch
Champion Author
San Antonio
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:43:20 AM
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I love how the unions tell us it is not their fault.
They are partially right.
The US automakers could have said no to those contracts that they knew would eventually pull them under.
Today is eventually.
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kanmandoo
Champion Author
Detroit
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:42:49 AM
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just what Detroit and 10,000,000 workers around the country need.
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Martinman
Champion Author
Mississippi
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:42:31 AM
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Bankruptcy.
If you're a supplier - are you going to continue to supply parts to a business that can legally defer or outright refuse to make payment for those parts, under bankruptcy. Would you leverage your business under such terms? I wouldn't.
As a third-party reseller - are you going to continue to carry and maintain inventory for an industry that shows signs of failure, or begin transitioning to the stronger players you believe best likely to survive so you're not left with dead product inventory? As an independent used-car business owner, are you going to buy vehicles built by a manufacturer that may no longer be in business a year from now? As a major third-party parts supplier, are you going to continue to manufacture parts for AutoZone, NAPA, or PepBoys that may no longer be in demand?
As a dealership - are you going to continue to place new vehicles on your lot? Many large dealers are now multi-dealers that own dealerships for multiple car companies. Do you continue to invest money in purchasing GM vehicles for your GM dealership, or place more Hondas, Hyundias, Kias, and Toyotas on those dealership lots?
If you're a buyer - would you buy a vehicle from a company that may not be there tomorrow. For which there may no longer be dealers to service or repair that vehicle. For which you can no longer get spare parts to repair that vehicle. What good is a warranty with no dealerships to honor those warranties? For a vehicle that would potentially have no resale value out of fear of the above? I wouldn't.
Bankruptcy is nothing more than a recipe for the loss of one of our few remaining major manufacturing sectors. Chapter 11 will eventually result in the transition to a chapter 7 filing, as a result in the loss in confidence a bankruptcy filing would have.
So the question becomes, do we add auto and truck manufacturing to our list of foreign country dependencies?
[Edited by: Martinman at 11/18/2008 9:49:28 AM EST]
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redraiderfan
Champion Author
Texas
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:41:58 AM
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We bail them out, where does it stop?
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Dennis783
Champion Author
Wisconsin
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:41:47 AM
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I'm sure they'll step in
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brentd
Rookie Author
Tulsa
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:41:46 AM
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WOW!!!
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Overfill
Veteran Author
Albuquerque
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:39:58 AM
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Old news
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rbdesigns
All-Star Author
Modesto
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:39:51 AM
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Not just the industry, but the people too
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nyfinest23
Rookie Author
Albany
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:38:44 AM
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maybe we should help american manufacturing a little, get them back on there feet!
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RedRam2005
Champion Author
San Antonio
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:38:06 AM
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The only reason anyone is even concerned about auto workers, is they are members of a labor union that always votes democrat and we must keep the voters happy.
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Scubamal
Veteran Author
Riverside
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:37:56 AM
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Now is the time to convert to electric or hybird cars.
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rod1965
All-Star Author
Portland
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:37:36 AM
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Do we actually have auto manufacturers left in America?
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miatabill
Champion Author
St. Louis
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:36:54 AM
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Let the 'big 3' have a dose of tough love. Restructuring might be the best thing that could happen to them.
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rtw777
Champion Author
Florida
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:36:45 AM
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We should keep Ford or GM to make tanks.
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VTROCK
Sophomore Author
Detroit
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:36:32 AM
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The cost of helping GM and Ford (Chrysler is a different story)would be insignificant compared to the lost tax revenue, unemployment payments and failed pension funds the government would have to pick up.
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2907
Veteran Author
Kentucky
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:33:20 AM
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Bail out the big three and send the UAW to Japan.
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PAULR12
All-Star Author
Massachusetts
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:33:03 AM
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when you poop where you eat you become GM
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frede2
Champion Author
Texas
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:32:57 AM
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Take the $700 billion away from the Wall Street bunch of thugs and use it, with a lot of oversight, for the auto industry and others.
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Expdn2000
Sophomore Author
Hartford
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:32:49 AM
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If your business gets upside down can we expect the same treatment with our tax dollars the big companies get?
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laoloup
Sophomore Author
Montreal
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:32:49 AM
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Union plays a minor part in the fallout. Innovation and staying ahead in the game are the way out. Sitting on past glories and playing big may make you feel and look good but won't get you far.
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DFleming
Veteran Author
Alberta
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Message Posted:
11/18/2008 9:32:24 AM
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GM has gotten itself into this mess. They promised too much to workers and now they can't stay competative with the competion.
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