scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2010 7:53:13 PM
Mario speaks the truth.
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MARIOWERX
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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2010 6:29:16 PM
And I repeat: "Every gas station that accepts a debit card charges you to do it.
It is either built into the price or an fee above cash price.
It is a cost of doing business.
So in reality would we have to avoid all stations that accept debit? "
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chambleetiger
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Atlanta
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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2010 2:43:18 PM
debit cards are the devil on fees use your c card
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Frankb4U
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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2010 11:30:33 AM
I was doing it but there are too many. Now I carry cash just for gas.
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Gas_Buddy
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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2010 8:53:36 AM
Not exactly true that there are no fees for using a debit card.
Some financial institutions charge for each debit card transaction (i.e., for each swipe).
Some financial institutions allow a certain number of debit card transactions per month at no addition charge (and you pay for each transaction above that amount).
Some financial institutions charge a monthly fee and allow either a certain number of debit card transactions or unlimited transactions.
And all financial institutions charge the business that accepts and makes the debit card transaction.
Just because you don't see the fee up front doesn't mean it's not there.
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wlotocky
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Florida
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Message Posted: Oct 27, 2010 8:34:00 AM
No fees for using a debit card!
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ladidaCA
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Message Posted: Oct 26, 2010 9:44:42 PM
never thought of it as boycotting, but if they do not take credit cards or charge extra fees, I just got to another place. I do not like double standards
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greendogMN
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Minnesota
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Message Posted: Oct 22, 2010 8:15:02 PM
No fee for debit card.
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 9:25:46 PM
One has to apply for a credit card and be approved. A credit report is obtained and a credit score is given. A limit is assigned if the card is approved.
One also has to apply for a debit card. However, no credit report is obtained and a credit score is not required. The only limit is the amount of money in the bank account the debit card is linked to.
While they function similarly, they are very different.
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airduct
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Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 5:50:07 PM
in my post below:
>a **debit/credit card** transaction comes directly, almost immediately, from funds you have deposited in your bank account.
Make that **debit/check card**
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airduct
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Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 5:22:10 PM
>The point of my comment (which was waaay back in July) was that debit cards are more like credit cards, "then" they are like checks.
The terms debit card and check card are interchangeable. Unlike a credit card where what you 'spend' is against a predetermined credit line you have previously established with a credit card company.. a debit/credit card transaction comes directly, almost immediately, from funds you have deposited in your bank account.
[Edited by: airduct at 10/20/2010 5:23:47 PM EST]
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 1:10:17 PM
"The point of my comment (which was waaay back in July) was that debit cards are more like credit cards, then they are like checks."
Which is not actually true and was refuted in July. No point on beating a dead horse, gth. Time to get another comment!
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gas_too_high
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Message Posted: Oct 20, 2010 12:45:46 PM
The point of my comment (which was waaay back in July) was that debit cards are more like credit cards, then they are like checks.
Of course, debit cards are unlike credit cards in several ways, ways which do not benefit the consumer who has access to credit cards.
GTH
[Edited by: gas_too_high at 10/20/2010 12:45:57 PM EST]
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Gas_Buddy
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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2010 10:20:16 AM
Side comment to "Not sure I like that description of a debit card, as I have noted restaurant debit card charges coming through in two iterations. The first is food and tax. The tip catches up a couple of days later."
Not sure if people realize but when you include a tip on a credit card bill the credit card company fee in addition to the transaction fee the restaurant is charged for the "swipe" of the card, the 2.5 or so percent of the bill that's charged is also charged on the tip. That is, if there's a $10 food/beverage charge and a $2 tip, the 2.5 percent is charged on (or taken from) both the food cost and the tip.
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Oct 19, 2010 6:37:38 AM
The only way a debit card is like a credit card is the shape of the card.
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Sneakers55
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Message Posted: Oct 18, 2010 7:49:45 PM
gas_too_high wrote:
>The best way to describe a debit card is like a credit card, but one that gets
>paid instantly from your checking account. However, debit cards besides being
>instantly paid are also do not have the same strong consumer legal protections
>against fraud as credit cards.
Not sure I like that description of a debit card, as I have noted restaurant debit card charges coming through in two iterations. The first is food and tax. The tip catches up a couple of days later.
>That combination (instant debir from our account plus fewer legal protections)
>makes debit cards more risky than credit cards. Frankly, I can't imagine why
>anyone who had a credit card would ever want to use a debit card.
Cash back at many merchants. Rewards Checking accounts.
>The closest thing to an electronic check I am aware of, is an electronic payment
>such as what you might generate using online banking -- an electronic transfer
>of funds between different accounts and different banks, using the same network
>used to clear paper checks.
Checks may or may not clear through the ACH network.
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the1roadhog
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Message Posted: Sep 30, 2010 9:08:08 AM
It's like charging for bags by the airline industry.
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freight48
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Message Posted: Sep 21, 2010 6:56:43 PM
waste of time
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650CFM
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Message Posted: Sep 21, 2010 1:18:09 PM
10-4!
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mikaye
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Message Posted: Jul 26, 2010 6:02:56 PM
It is no suprise, when a company accepts a card, they charge a fee because the card company ususally charges them to accept it. The card company is not in it for nothing and neither is anyone else. Accept it.
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Gas_Buddy
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Message Posted: Jul 26, 2010 8:51:43 AM
missgullible66:
You mean there are stations that are adding a charge to the posted price for people wanting to use credit cards? Or do you mean that gas stations selling "lower quality gas" are including a fee in the base price (the price announded on the on the signs and on the pump? If you're saying that they're including a "fee" in the price they post, I pretty much think that all gas stations, regardless of quality of gas, include an operating cost for credit card costs in their price. Otherwise, how would they get reimbursed for operating expenses - paying for it from salaries or profits?
Just semantics, but as all gas must meet minimum federal (and other) standards, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that some stations are higher quality than saying that other stations are lower because they didn't add to what's required? Just wondering about the semantics.
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missgullible66
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Message Posted: Jul 18, 2010 3:01:08 AM
I noticed the only gas stations that charge a fee for using a credit card are the ones with the lower quality gas. so just go to shell or chevron and do your car a favor.
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Gas_Buddy
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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2010 4:36:32 PM
If you remember, airduct, when similar items were discussed, a number of people in this thread were adamant that no one paid for debit card usage, that somehow financial institutions that issued debit cards simply took the money from your account and, by magic, that was it. Stores, etc. apparently didn't include any debit card (nor credit card) fees in their pricing; the financial institutions must simply have dedicated employees who are working out of the generosity of their heart.
People are simply blind to the idea or the fact that somone has to pay for processing of credit cards and debit cards, someone has to pay for the salaries of people working for companies that accept credit cards and debit cards (just as those people using those cards expect to be paid for what they do), and that someone has to pay for rent of the store or shop or business, pay the operating expenses, the rent, the utilities, the tax advisors and/or accountants, the franchise fees, the insurance, the local fees, and pay for a return on the investment the business owner made so the investment can be paid off. And, someone has to help pay for a profit on the investment. That seems to not be able to be understood. Just as people either don't understand or don't want to understand that someone has pay for debit card processing (call it debit card fees if you will) - somewhere in the purchase or payment process; that it's not a free service.
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airduct
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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2010 2:56:00 PM
The dark secrets of Debit Cards..Consumer Reports
[Edited by: airduct at 7/15/2010 2:56:51 PM EST]
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2010 1:00:20 PM
Exactly mariowerx!
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MARIOWERX
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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2010 12:20:32 PM
Every gas station that accepts a debit card charges you to do it.
It is either built into the price or an fee above cash price.
It is a cost of doing business.
So in reality would we have to avoid all stations that accept debit?
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Gas_Buddy
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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2010 11:55:08 AM
Moving right along... reg366 suggests boycotting all stations that charge you to use your debit card. The only station I can think of that charges you to use your debit card is ARCO. That said, ARCO has signs posted in multiple locations (as well as on their website) that clearly says there is a 45 cent fee (the current charge) if you use your debit card. That charge is to offset any additional expenses incurred by the station in processing your payment, and the charge incurred by your use of a debit card isn't passed on (read that as "shared") with others who didn't create the additional expense for the station.
That charge is, of course, in addition to any debit card charges your financial institution charges you.
That said, if the charge is clearly posted for all to see, why should anyone boycott ARCO (in this case) because they charge you to use your debit card. Either simply pay cash, knowingly pay the debit card fee, or shop somewhere else. But "boycott"? That's a harsh word.
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2010 10:01:07 AM
"A debit card is not like an electronic check. The best way to describe a debit card is like a credit card, but one that gets paid instantly from your checking account."
When you don't know what you are talking about you should stay silent gth.
A debit card is a more advanced form of your ATM card that you can use to purchase goods and services as well as get money from your account at an ATM. There is no interest charged on any purchases using your debit card. There is no debit card statement issued. You must have an account at a financial institution to have a debit card. Your credit rating doesn't affect your ability to get a debit card.
There are finance charges and late fees associated with credit cards. You don't need to have an account at a financial institution to have a credit card. You need to have a good credit rating to get a credit card. You receive a credit card statement monthly.
[Edited by: scoutmaster at 7/15/2010 10:02:15 AM EST]
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airduct
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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2010 9:44:08 AM
Some banks often refer to their debit cards as check cards.
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gas_too_high
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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2010 9:00:16 AM
A debit card is not like an electronic check. The best way to describe a debit card is like a credit card, but one that gets paid instantly from your checking account. However, debit cards besides being instantly paid are also do not have the same strong consumer legal protections against fraud as credit cards.
That combination (instant debir from our account plus fewer legal protections) makes debit cards more risky than credit cards. Frankly, I can't imagine why anyone who had a credit card would ever want to use a debit card.
The closest thing to an electronic check I am aware of, is an electronic payment such as what you might generate using online banking -- an electronic transfer of funds between different accounts and different banks, using the same network used to clear paper checks.
GTH
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Jul 14, 2010 2:00:29 PM
Oops! Got that backward! The financial institutions are charging the retailers!
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Gas_Buddy
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Message Posted: Jul 14, 2010 1:57:26 PM
Retailers are charging the financial institutions to accept debit cards?
Isn't that like saying retailers are charging the financial institutions to accept credit cards?
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Jul 14, 2010 11:13:19 AM
Well, Gas Buddy, most retailers charge the financial institution to accept debit cards. Whether the financial institution passes this charge on to the consumer is up to the financial institution.
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Gas_Buddy
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Message Posted: Jul 14, 2010 10:37:03 AM
Meaning then, I guess, scoutmaster, that people should boycott all debit card issuers if they charge in any way for you to use your debit card (an entirely different thing than reg366 says when he only puts the apparent blame on gas stations which have the debit card charge imposed upon them).
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Jul 14, 2010 5:23:24 AM
The reason I said a debit card was an electronic check was because a debit card accesses your checking account for funds while a credit card doesn't.
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Gas_Buddy
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Message Posted: Jul 13, 2010 6:33:22 PM
A debit card (from the financial processing of it) is more similar to a credit card than it is to an electronic check. Depending on the financial institution, the gas station may be charged a percentage of the purchase price and/or a charge for the card being "swiped" as well as the debit card user being charged a monthly or annual fee and/or a fee for the card being "swiped" (some users are charged for each and every "swipe", some are charged after a certain number of "swipes", and some get unlimited swipes - simply depends on the financial institution). Considerably different than the charges for any electronic checks I'm familiar with. But that doesn't mean electronic checks are the same for every financial institution.
Now if, instead of writing "Very similar to cash yet different" you wrote "Very similar to cah yet very different..."
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Jul 13, 2010 5:06:50 PM
A debit card is an electronic check. Very similar to cash yet different.
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Gas_Buddy
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Message Posted: Jul 13, 2010 4:13:27 PM
kingofcode:
Why should debit cards be the same as cash?
Maybe I should ask it a different way: Who should treat debit cards the same as cash? Banks and/or other financial institutions treat the handling of debit cards different than they do cash, and charge different rates for processing debit cards than they credit cards. Furthermore, they charge different fees for different types of debit cards that they themselves issue. And some financial institutions charge the debit card user a fee as well, (sometimes for each "swipe", sometimes a monthly or annual fee), sometimes charge for both).
The simple fact is that the debit cards are not the same as cash.
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kingofcode
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Message Posted: Jun 25, 2010 6:06:29 PM
debit cards should be the same as cash....
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Jun 25, 2010 2:14:04 PM
So I'll take that as a no gth.
My position is not that mysterious since the "hassle" is perceived.
[Edited by: scoutmaster at 6/25/2010 2:16:23 PM EST]
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gas_too_high
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Message Posted: Jun 25, 2010 2:12:32 PM
Gas_Buddy: I know some here can't be bothered to step away from the pump, once, to pay, and so use only credit/debit and pay-at-the-pump. That may be part of the reason why there are protests against lower cash prices and "fees" or "surcharges" for using credit or debit cards.
Of course, why those same people complain when I object to cash prepay, which requires you to step away from the pump, TWICE, is a mystery to me. At least, your position is consistent.
(And fortunately, I have no difficulty finding non-prepay stations around Columbus with competitive low prices).
GTH
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Gas_Buddy
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Message Posted: Jun 25, 2010 1:12:18 PM
gas_too_high:
"Absent the rebate issue, why not just shop for the lowest price, whether cash-only or not?"
I agree with you on that, GTH.
As for scoutmaster's "Well if you find the lower price is the cash price then you might have to put up with the "hassle" paying cash incurs. Are you prepared to accept that gth.", if I can answer, my answer is yes. I don't see it as much of a hassle. But that's just me. But then I've never really understood the mentality of "I can't afford to waste a second; I've got better things to do with my time." Again; just me talking.
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Jun 25, 2010 11:51:42 AM
Well if you find the lower price is the cash price then you might have to put up with the "hassle" paying cash incurs. Are you prepared to accept that gth?
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gas_too_high
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Message Posted: Jun 25, 2010 11:15:07 AM
Gas_Buddy: "But I haven't, for the life of me, understood why anyone would not shop at a gas station that had dual pricing (one price for cash, a different price for credit/debit payment) if that gas station was less expensive than a station that had one price regardless of payment. "
I agree with you on that, GB.
I do understand the limited exception, of someone who factors in an expected credit/debit rebate, using that to lower the "real" credit price. (Personally I don't rely on those rebates, as they seem subject to enough conditions as to not be a sure thing -- but I digress).
Absent the rebate issue, why not just shop for the lowest price, whether cash-only or not?
GTH
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airduct
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Message Posted: Jun 24, 2010 6:05:24 PM
Isn't free enterprise wonderful!
A person can shop where ever they want and the businesses can do as they please..
[Edited by: airduct at 6/24/2010 6:09:16 PM EST]
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Gas_Buddy
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Message Posted: Jun 24, 2010 5:09:02 PM
Don't jump on me...
All gas I buy is paid for in cash, regardless whether it's a cash only station (such as Freestate, a local chain) or at station that charges different prices for cash payment or payment by credit/debit or at a station that charges the same regardless of payment.
I'm long said that I have no problem with a gas station having dual pricing (if it wants) because I don't believe that a cash paying customer (read that as: a customer who didn't create the credit/debit fee the gas station has to pay shouldn't have to pay a fee that's not there). That said, if a gas station wants to charge one price for each and every customer, so be it; that's the gas station's choice; if it's easier, less complicated, more simplistic for the station, that's fine too; it's up to the gas station to set prices and up to me to decide if I think it's a good price for what I'm buying. I can shop at any gas station that meets my needs, be it locale/convenience, amenities (convenience store or free air), or price of fuel.
But I haven't, for the life of me, understood why anyone would not shop at a gas station that had dual pricing (one price for cash, a different price for credit/debit payment) if that gas station was less expensive than a station that had one price regardless of payment.
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Jun 24, 2010 4:44:26 PM
"What's that got to do with anything? Single-priced stations aren't charging credit/debit customers any more than they charge cash customers. That's what I meant, as everyone else on this thread understood."
No they aren't charging credit/debit customers more. How much ya wanna bet everyone is paying the fee at single priced stations? So when you pay cash at a single price station, you could be paying a fee for credit/debit card customers even though you are paying cash. And if you have the "hassle" of having to walk all the way to the station twice, you are getting doubly screwed!
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gas_too_high
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Message Posted: Jun 24, 2010 1:51:21 PM
"Do you really believe single priced stations are not passing this fee along to the customers?"
What's that got to do with anything? Single-priced stations aren't charging credit/debit customers any more than they charge cash customers. That's what I meant, as everyone else on this thread understood.
Any cost a station incurs gets passed on to the customer, as long as the market price of gas allows it. That's a given. Some stations make everyone pay the transaction fees. Some stations (too few stations, in my opinion) place the burden of the transaction fee on those customers who incur it -- credit/debit customers -- by charging them higher prices than those cash customers who don't incur transaction fees.
Nothing at all wrong with that, and no one has yet articulated what they think is wrong with that. If you don't like the fees, switch to cash or go elsewhere.
GTH
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Gas_Buddy
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Message Posted: Jun 24, 2010 1:49:36 PM
"Most gas stations don't charge extra for credit/debit fees, so if you don't like them, just go to one of those stations."
I would say that they all do, they just differ in how they charge the fee. I mean they have to make up for the money it costs the station to process the credit/debit card fees. It's semantics; some gas stations find their base price they need to charge and then tack on the additional (credit/debit card) fee they have to pay and say "this is our selling price" whereas other gas stations say "this is our selling price for cash and this is our selling price for credit/debit and the credit/debit price is higher because we've included the extra cost we have to pay and which we're passing on to the consumer who's buying a product that is more expensive for us to sell.
Maybe I didn't understand any of the marketing classes I've taken or when I worked in fruit and vegetable stands as a kid but the standard we worked with was, more or less, Economics? "Supply and Demand." That's it. Business is, "you buy something, and you sell it for more." People know you're trying to make a profit off of them but if you price your product lower than the other guy, you'll probably get their business; and if you can't price it lower than the other guy, sell them on the value of the product and why it's worth their paying a higher price than someone's else's products costs (and subtlely let them know that you had to pay a higher price for the product and you're not making a large profit off them).
You might say gas stations don't charge extra for credit/debit fees... but the charge is in the price somewhere.
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MARIOWERX
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Message Posted: Jun 24, 2010 1:49:23 PM
Boycott ALL that accept debit then! Do you want to stop buying gas as they ALL charge a fee some just hide it. It is a cost of doing business. Even in Canada if there is no up front charge for debit the cost of debit is built into the final price. If they accept debit They CHARGE for it.
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